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 Post subject: Chemistry - Base Costs
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:32 pm 
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Kiri Chunin
Kiri Chunin
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Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:03 am
Posts: 1325
Location: Oregon
Hey y'all,

So I wanted to open a dialogue for figuring out a price point for the three levels of Chemistry crafting that are vague at best. The only mention of a price that I can recall is in the description of Master grade Poisons in the Poison guide, stating that they are "outrageously expensive". This leaves Apprentice and Journeyman level Chemistry works woefully undefined, I suggest that we slap a base cost associated with each rank. I also believe there should be some case by case additional costs depending on the nature of the item but setting a base value to each rank would be greatly helpful to any and all using Chemistry.

I was given a suggestion by Ayano* to include materials from our Price List for Chemistry products, which I think is spot on and in line with the other crafting styles. However, I feel this list is too limiting and the values too cheap for the true value some products can grant. Here are the items on the current list that I could see being applicable:
  • Simple Liquids(Oils, wax, etc) | 2,000 ryo/liter
  • Glass | 3,000 ryo/2lbs
    • Vials | 500
    • Flasks | 500/small | 1,000/medium | 1,500/large
Unfortunately, the above materials hardly constitute the "outrageously expensive" requirement for Master level Chemistry goods, even with outrageous quantities of the above six items. I’ll shoot out some rough numbers and hopefully, we can come up with something more concrete together if y’all like the idea!

Base costs:
Apprentice: 20,000-50,000
Journeyman: 50,000-100,000
Master: 100,000-300,000

Let me know your thoughts!

_________________
Stats n' Stuff:
Strength: Proficient +1 (Masterful Kenjutsu)
Constitution: Proficient
Stamina: Proficient +1
Reflexes: Epic +1 (Legendary +1 Kenjutsu)
Coordination: Proficient +1 (Masterful Kenjutsu)
Wisdom: Proficient

Kenjutsu - Specialist
Ijutsu - Specialist
Ninjutsu - Specialist
Chemistry - Master
Sensory - Minor
Fuuinjutsu - Minor

Might: 2
Will: 2
Fate: 0

Age: 16

Character Sheet
Chemistry Shop
Customs
Image


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:59 pm 
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Uchiha Seto
Uchiha Seto
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Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:20 pm
Posts: 686
Jutsu List: Imperials Are Stupid
I have also noticed an added input as far as crafting goes. There seems to be less incentive to waste CP on crafting styles on the bottom line for people creating characters. I will be honest I never saw any motivation for myself to create a character that gains anything for taking the style. I have noticed before restart we had a healthy selection and people were willing to do it.

I have also noticed since restart that only a select few have taken the styles and with us making weapons or anything being tied to their being crafters. I wanna know how we could tackle the lack of crafting depth that either people feel it is not rewarding to make it thus preventing people who want to get stuff made do not have the avenue.

With that being said, I have two suggestions.

1. We increase what the crafter itself gains from using the CP from the cap to take the style. I realize that they gain infamy/fame based on a percentage of the user of said item. They also gain Ryo from it. But, that doesn't seem to motivate people to create crafters. Perhaps a change that could be made would instead have Apprentice and Journeyman FS CP cost not count toward the ACP. But, have the Master count toward the ACP. What this may do is drive atleast some people to take up crafting on some characters and perhaps of it behooves them to keep progressing they can take the tax of it being added to ACP for master. Now, I realize we would also run into a problem with too many people spending the CP for the first two levels and everyone doesn't go to Mastercraft. So, here is a proposed solution:

A. Set a hard cap limit to how many each village can have Apprentice and Journeyman.
B. Do not set a max limit for mastercrafter but, the bonus for spending the CP on the mastercraft going into ACP yields more. Increase the value of the fame/infamy they gain from people who kill/do things with those weapons. Perhaps offer a discount rate on materials in the store for mastercrafters as an incentive to take that next step.

_________________
Strength: Proficient
Constitution: Masterful [15 Durability]
Stamina: Epic [30 Stamina: Ninjutsu][30 Stamina: Taijutsu]
Reflex: Epic [Track to Godlike Reflex with Sharingan Active]
Coordination: Epic [/w minor advantage: Ninjutsu for hand seals]
Wisdom: Epic [+1 Tier when using Taijutsu] [+1 Tier When Sharingan Active]


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:17 am 
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Kumo Tokubetsu Jonin
Kumo Tokubetsu Jonin
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Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:58 am
Posts: 47
Fame: 0
Infamy: 0
Speaking as someone who is making a craft character, the main problem seems to be the lack of in game incentive.

At minor rank the best you are getting is the ability to waste 2days and CP to make weapons for about 40 percent off and armor which hasn't been written up really. By comparison a weapon fighting style put at minor basically gives you that weapon for free or at the same discount. (not even mentioning making projectiles is far more expensive than buying them even for a master craftsmen.) This isn't mentioning that completing 1 or 2 low ranking missions will give you the funds to buy the item you want anyway.

For journeyman the items are actually kind of cool, but its hard to argue that they are worth 500 points to start getting good when you still have to supply the costs of the item and two days time. Let alone its still hard to compete with the in game store because you either have to work on comission or waste all your ryo trying to make a selection. Not as much of a problem when your working on just making cool stuff for yourself, but then you run into the problem of whether its better to waste cp on the stuff or simply spend ryo to get someone else to make it.

Master craft for everything but poison is worth while simply because it can provide bonus's worthy of making the items, but that 10 day wait time can be brutal between items. Here you have to have a small fortune to buy the items, but it still is debatable whether it is actually worth it to get the skill because a legendary crafted item is not as apparently valuable as for example: going specialist in taijutsu and to make enough items to match that bonus is more costly in both time and money then the instant gratification of the taijutsu.

As for chemistry i wouldn't increase the base cost until what it does is more defined. as an example In the manga choji's pills while almost lethal granted massive stat gains (or enough chakara for choji to gain massive stat gains from some other unnamed techniques), but items can't do that so instead they restore chakara. Given stamina and ninjutsu/taijutsu are super lenient on costs to begin with the pills are almost a nonfactor. In short i wouldn't make them more expensive because they are kind of underpowered in terms of value to begin with, time should be the most costly part of crafting.

_________________
Ninja Stats (though usually i am in fission)
Attributes:
Strength: average (major advantage with weapons)
Constitution: average
Stamina: average
Reflexes: average (minor during evasion) (major advantage toward tracking) (major for handseals)
Coordination: average (Major ninjutus) (minor during evasion Raises it to proficient)
Wisdom: average (major advantage from genjutsu) (major seals (proficient minor advantage))
Fission Stats
Attributes:
Strength: poor minor (average with weapons)
Constitution: poor minor
Stamina: poor minor
Reflexes: poor minor (major during evasion) (major advantage toward tracking) (average for handseals)
Coordination: poor minor (average ninjutus) (minor during evasion Raises it to average minor)
Wisdom: poor mnor (average from genjutsu) (major advantage seals (average major advantage))
Character Page


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